Message: #13515 (Read 2 times, has 0 replies, 3548 bytes) Date : Sat Oct 18 00:19:12 1997 From : Graham Marsden of fidonet#2:251/21 To : All Subject: The Ethics of Time Travel... Hi Everyone, Due to mail losses and since it's quiet in here (too quiet!) I've managed to find this posting that I put in here a couple of weeks back and I'm going to repost it in the hope that it'll liven things up... * * * * * [Re: If I went back in time and killed my dad before I was born...] GM> Assuming it *is* possible, what sort of timeline do you envision? LH> I suppose any kind of conversation/argument about time travel is LH> pointless, because nobody knows. We can only argue our opinions. Not entirely pointless, since it can be enjoyable just experimenting with ideas to see where they lead, this is, after all, one of the prime tenets of SF! LH> Maybe this thread was a bad idea. I don't think so, since you state below... GM>> I think Time Travel stories are *very* old hat, they've been done to GM> death as plot devices and should be left alone! LH> I was thinking more of the *possibility* of time travel, than time LH> travel stories. Now *this* is more interesting, if we start looking at the concept of time travel from an *ethical* point of view. For example, in the Dune books by Frank Herbert, Paul Atreides has the ability to see into the future and to guide the universe onto a particular course. But the problem is that he realises that if you *only* stick to the "safe" path then it will lead into stagnation because there are no challenges to meet and overcome (cf the Vorlons and Shadows in Babylon 5 where the Vorlons want stability and the Shadows want to "kick over the ant hills"). Another example is one of the few good ideas that came from Robert Heinlein's later works, that if you have the *ability* to alter events and situations by going back into the past *should* you do it? For example in one of his "histories" there is a period called "the Third Interregnum" where the USA comes under the influence of a religious leader called Nehemiah Scudder who effectively eliminates science, forces society into a particular bible based form and stops development dead. The "heroes" (who are effectively in a parallel universe) have the ability to time travel and decide to go back in time and ensure that Nehemiah Scudder's parents (who were a couple of teenagers) had a condom with them so he was not conceived. When they later check back on that universe's future they find that the entire planet has been turned into a radio-active wasteland by nuclear war, so by eliminating an "undersirable" future they simply made the situation worse! Yet another example is from Isaac Asimov's story "The End of Eternity" where a group in the future try to do what they think is best for society by, again, getting rid of "dangerous" concepts and inventions, but they eventually find they have things worse. So the question is, "If you had the ability to time travel into either the past or the future, what would you *do* with that ability?" In fact I really think that this thread would be better off done in F&SF.UK, so I've copied it across and put it in there! Anyone else reading this is welcome to come across and join in. * * * * * Cheers, Graham. --- GEcho/32 1.20/Pro * Origin: METRIC BBS * 01705 871471 * Multi Line * V34 28k8 * (2:251/21) Message: #13532 (Read 2 times, has 0 replies, 3168 bytes) Date : Tue Oct 21 23:07:57 1997 From : Stewart Smedley of fidonet#2:252/178 To : Graham Marsden Subject: The Ethics of Time Travel... Hello Graham. 18 Oct 97 00:19, Graham Marsden wrote to All: GM> Now *this* is more interesting, if we start looking at the concept of GM> time travel from an *ethical* point of view. GM> For example, in the Dune books by Frank Herbert, Paul Atreides has the GM> ability to see into the future and to guide the universe onto a GM> particular course. But the uncertainty principle would play a strong part in this one. What WOULD have happened if Atreides hadn't pushed it that particular way?? Would it have been guaranteed to be a bad thing?? GM> The "heroes" (who are effectively in a parallel universe) have the GM> ability to time travel and decide to go back in time and ensure that GM> Nehemiah Scudder's parents (who were a couple of teenagers) had a GM> condom with them so he was not conceived. It is similar to the Back to the Future paradox though?! The McFly from the 50's doesn't get knocked down, but his son of 35 years ahead does and promptly gets chatted up by his to-be-mother?? GM> When they later check back on that universe's future they find that GM> the entire planet has been turned into a radio-active wasteland by GM> nuclear war, so by eliminating an "undersirable" future they simply GM> made the situation worse! That's the problem. You can theorize on this for a long time and still get no where!! GM> So the question is, "If you had the ability to time travel into either GM> the past or the future, what would you *do* with that ability?" It would have to be the future. Going backward will be a major catastrophe waiting to happen. If an aircraft flies along and is one degree out, that error is not noticable straight away. But after one hundred miles, it becomes quite the different. If that aircraft was say, Concorde, it could cover a larger distance, thus the error has grown in size again. So if you were walking down a road and there was just one person walking down the street, your presence strictly would be a problem. Add more people to that same street and then you do something very insignificant, like get in somebody's way, the paving slab they WERE going to walk over has raised half an inch (in the usual manner of cracks!!), you trip and they don't, you may have just changed the timeline that would have naturally happened. That person could have fallen down and injured themselves, producing a ripple in that line of actions. That person has to go ill for a period of time, and loses their job. Family problems. You now have effected two persons (subject to this person being married). Your little trip has just changed two peoples lives. And that's just the beginning. Oh dear! What have you started I know there will be a few responses to this thread!! Cheers, Stewart --- FMailX32 1.22 * Origin: The Driver BBS Computer Surgery - Just call for The Doct (2:252/178)