Date : Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:50:14 +0000
From : "W.Scholten" <wouter.scholten@...>
Subject: Re: apl, hibasic 87?
Hi Pete,
> Acorn sold HiBASIC for the 6502 Second Processor and later for the Turbo (I
> checked, the Turbo version is actually slightly later, so I was wrong about
> that, but still only 1984). I'm sure there was no later version produced
> in-house.
Why? I don't buy anyone's statement saying 'xyz doesn't exist' unless
they were working in the part of the company actually producing xyz
(left hand/right hand etc).
Paranoid, who me? ;-)
> > The master turbo also
> > uses a 6502 2p (4MHz, slightly different CPU but that's not the point),
>
> Not exactly, it's a 65C102, which is somewhat different (different pinout,
> different clocking, extended instruction set), the RAM is different, and so
> is some of the interfacing. The Turbo was a different design.
Yes, it's a 2p with a differences to the older external box. The exact
details of the differences are not the point, I thought that was
obvious.
> > so 'stopped selling them before 1987' I cannot agree with. And you'd be
> > surprised what people don't know/hear/notice about the products they
> > sell (like a dealer not knowing about certain service manuals!). And if
> > Acorn didn't sell it, a distributor obviously wouldn't come across it.
>
> In 1987, I was Acorn's Northern UK Sales Manager, and I was closely
> involved with the Turbo and the coprocessor box (officially known as the
> "Universal Second Processor Adaptor" which was sold to allow copros to be
> used on Masters and Beebs, since the original 2P's were no longer
> available), so I think I do know what I'm talking about :-)
Yes, I understand, but there are always circumstances where people do
not know of certain products/goings on in other departements. I've seen
many people state 'this doesn't exists because' and 'this doesn't exist
or I would have known' which turned out false... I only believe it if:
more information becomes available on tubelink indicating that hibas87
is vapourware (may be difficult as it was an electronic medium only I
believe, so most of what was published could have disappeared (?)), or
if someone handling licensing and/or development of hibasic steps
forward. Or maybe there's a complaint in later AU's/MU's about
tubelink's vapourware? I don't know, I don't have (nor have read) any
AU's or MU's from 1988/1989.
> The Turbo is quite a different design to the 6502 Second Processor (I have
> one of each in the room beside me now), and although the Turbo officially
> continued to be available even after the launch of the Archimedes, the
> 6502 2P was out of production well before 1987.
It makes no sense to insist that the 2p was out of production in the
context of this discussion. Hibas87 was for 2p/turbo board. You then
said, well that makes no sense as the 2p was discontinued before 1987. I
said, no, the turbo has a 2p (or copro if you insist on that
terminology) which was still being sold. The exact physical differences
are completely irrelevant! Hibas87 is for both.
[ does it exist ? ]
> I'd be willing to bet there's no 1987 version of HiBASIC, only the 1983 one
> -- or else it's a non-Acorn product.
I don't see why tubelink should advertise it as 'Aoorn's very latest
1987 Hi-BASIC' if it was third party. But I guess it's possible that
they (tubelink people) got a licence to modify it and then did.
> > Tubelink ads mention 'Advanced BASIC' which included the 1987 hibasic
> > disc. This might be ABasic so you can find more (esp. the 87 basic) I'd
> > be very interested! (I'll OCR the ad if there's interest, see e.g. AU
> > nov 1987 p.32)
>
> My colleague Sue Wall was in charge of 3rd Party liaison and support and
> might have licensed Tubelink to sell HiBASIC along with their product, but
> I suspect not. If you read the advert (I'm looking at the one in AU Aug
> 87, which may be different) it describes EXROM which, amongst other things,
> provides extensions to HiBASIC -- not HiBASIC itself. It even says if you
> are using HiBASIC, state which version -- so it would seem unlikely
> Tubelink supplied it.
Not at that time they didn't. It appeared in later ads (nov/dec in AU,
not sure about MU, don't have all MU's from 87 any more).
'if you read the ad' ? I even provided an OCR of the later ad which also
includes this EXR and hibasic version line! (american's would now say to
you: 'get with the program!' :-)
Uhm, upon reflection, 'state which version of hibasic you have' does not
actually imply anything about them delivering hibas87, as they sold that
separately. Why supply hibas87 for free with a rom, if you can charge
extra for it, right? ;-)
[ i-apl giving no info ]
> Try asking I-APL?
Yes, of course, I sent an email :-)
Although when people offer this little useful information it could take
a year before I get anything useful out of them. I've been through such
things, and such scanty information is very indicative of what you can
expect in response to any queries. Well maybe I'm wrong. I'd still like
to know if anyone here knows more about it, it might be less hassle ;)
Here's an example of an email chain in reply to a wanted add for one or
two px-32csi cd players (you may find it amusing, I did not at the
time):
xyz: yes, I have five of these. Do you want to buy them all, and if so
how much do you want to pay for them?
whs: Ok, so do you want to sell one or two, or only sell all of them at
once? I'm prepared to pay about f 75,- a piece, for 2. if that's not
agreeable, make me a counter offer.
xyz: you can have all five for f 450,- including scsi housing, you'd
better come fetch them though, it's heavy and will cost a lot to ship.
After 3 mails I'm still none the wiser if he only wants to sell all of
them or will sell me 1 or 2 as all he's said was 'all five for f 450,-'
! If he then does agree to 1 or 2, at what price? A lot more emails to
go...
But I didn't bother any more.
Regards,
Wouter